Discussion:
Time to cut the financial balls off of Israel
(too old to reply)
Pastor Frank
2004-05-10 00:45:04 UTC
Permalink
Israel gets $15 million a day in US foreign aid, and not one penny
goes
to the dispossessed refugees and massacre survivors, nor does even any
of
the tax money raised in occupied territories go to improve the appalling
conditions imposed on a hapless and innocent occupied people.
Every president since 1947 has made a futile attempt to
help Israel negotiate peace. But no leadership has surfaced
among the Palestinians that can make a binding agreement.
Wrong!!!! Implementation of international law and United Nations
resolutions concerning the Palestinian refugees was firmly rejected by the
USA-Israeli Alliance, and no Palestinian could negotiate without at least
some hope of getting something in return from them, apart from a tiny
impoverished native "homeland" after the South African apartheid model.
Had Palestinians been offered a minimum of compensation for confiscated
property, there would be now no Muslim terrorism. The money needlessly
spent on fighting recent terrorism, would have guaranteed each Palestinian
refugee a minimum 1 Million Dollars compensation, and would have made the
world's Muslims our most loyal and enthusiastic supporters. But as is, the
USA MUST have devils to fight, no matter what the cost to us all, probably
in order to safe-guard internal peace within the USA. See below cause and
prophetic consequence
--
Pastor Frank

CAUSE OF THE APOCALYPSE: Being proud instead of repentant of the horrific
holocaust of the entire native population of "the promised land", as well as
the continuing colonial brutality against Palestinian natives.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord
thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing
that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them; the Hittites, and the
Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites
as the Lord thy God has commanded thee."
Ezekiel 32:5 "I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the
valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with
your flowing blood..."
Ezekiel 9:5 "Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall
not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and
maidens, little children and women...'"
Deut. 7:1 (KJV)When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you're
about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you...you're to cut
them down and exterminate them. You're to make no compromise with
them nor show them any mercy.
Joshua 10:40 - BBE So Joshua struck all the land, the hill-country, and
the South, and the lowland, and the slopes, and all their kings: he left
none remaining, but he utterly destroyed all that breathed, as God, the God
of Israel, commanded."
1 Samuel 15:3 - BBE Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all
that they have, and don't spare them; but kill both man and woman, infant
and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."
Isaiah 13:16 - BBE Their infants also will be dashed in pieces before
their eyes. Their houses will be ransacked, and their wives raped."
Hosea 13:16 - BBE Samaria will bear her guilt; For she has rebelled
against her God. They will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed
in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open."
Moses in Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the
little ones, and kill every woman, that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the female children, that have not known man by lying with him,
keep alive for yourself.

PROPHETIC APOCALYPSE, (The N-U-C-L-E-A-R consequence of the abomination
above and others like it, employing great noise and heat that can melt
elements, scorch people and destroy the "works of man" on a massive scale)
2Pt:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up.
2Pt:3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat?
Jesus in Matt. 24:16: Then let them which be in Judea flee into the
mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out
of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in
those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning
of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be
saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus in Lk:23:30: Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on
us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Rv:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name
of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give
him glory.
Honest Aryan
2004-05-10 21:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Wrong!!!! Implementation of international law and United Nations
resolutions concerning the Palestinian refugees was firmly rejected by the
USA-Israeli Alliance, and no Palestinian could negotiate without at least
some hope of getting something in return from them, apart from a tiny
impoverished native "homeland" after the South African apartheid model.
Agreed but, given the degree of Semitism
in "mainstream" US politics, the senator probably
felt the need for some back-pedalling to avoid
having his arguments dismissed with the usual
"anti-Semitism" canard, making it all the more
necessary for the "Poor Jews" crapola to be
flushed down around the U-bend of history.
Here's my contribution to the clean-up:

"Not only in American business and cultural life and in
Israel's military triumphs have the Jews in this
century struck back against their age-old enemies. The
Bolshevik Revolution and some of its aftermath
represented, from one perspective, Jewish revenge.

As the Tsarist government in the late-nineteenth
century found itself increasingly in confrontation
with the Empire's Jewish population, there was a
strong leftist and revolutionary drift among the
younger Jewish generations. Most became members of the
Bund, a democratic, peaceful, labor union
organization. But some became bomb-throwing anarchists
and revolutionary Communists. In the Bolshevik
government that was in control of most of Russia by
1920, three out of the six members of the Politburo
executive were Jews, not counting Lenin himself whose
father had a Jewish grandparent.

The founders of the Soviet secret police (later KGB),
headquartered in Lubyanka prison in Moscow, were
mostly Jews. Jews also took leadership roles, down
into the early 1950s, in the Communist parties of
Germany, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Rumania.
In the struggle for succession to Lenin in the 1920s,
leading to the defeat and exile of the Jewish Trotsky
Bronstein, most of the high-level Soviet Jews made the
mistake of supporting Stalin, an Asiatic anti-Semite
who in the purge trials in the mid-1930s eventually
eliminated these Jewish `Old Bolsheviks'. But even to
some degree after the Great Purge, Jews were still
prevalent in powerful Soviet government positions and
many of Stalin's cohorts in the 1940s had Jewish wives.
Here is a cool appraisal of Stalin's Jews, published in
1994 by the Russian writer Arkady Vaksberg.

`During the heyday of the Cold War, American Jewish
publicists spent a lot of time denying that - as 1930s
anti-Semites claimed - Jews played a disproportionately
important role in Soviet and world Communism. The
truth is until the early 1950s Jews did play such
a role, and there is nothing to be ashamed of. In
time, Jews will learn to take pride in the record of
the Jewish Communists in the Soviet Union and
elsewhere. It was a species of striking back.'"

(chapter entitled `Stalin's Jews', p. 364 of "The Jewish
Experience", Castle Books, 1996, by Jewish historian Norman
F. Cantor, professor of history at New York University.)

--
Visit the Cybermuseum of BBC War Crimes at:
http://users.bluecarrots.com/rbisto/BBC/BBC.html
Admission *FREE* - even for libruls!
Robert M
2004-05-10 21:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Hamas stated purpose is to drive Israelis into the sea. They charter
declares them to be terrorists. We must cut off all assistance to the
Palestinian Authority as too much of it filters down to Hamas.

There already is a Palestine. You may know of it by its present name:

Jordon.
Pastor Frank
2004-05-10 23:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert M
Hamas stated purpose is to drive Israelis into the sea. They charter
declares them to be terrorists. We must cut off all assistance to the
Palestinian Authority as too much of it filters down to Hamas.
Jordon.
Jordan is already densely populated and the home of Bedouins who are in
control. There will be no peace until Zioamerica invites refugees to return
home, or be compensated for the loss of their property as per international
law and numerous ignored United Nations resolutions, and as Germany is
offering Jewish survivors.
Whoever ethnically cleanses a country and offers no right of return, nor
compensation to the refugees they create, SHOULD be "driven into the sea",
don't you think?
--
Pastor Frank

Famous Zionist Quote (back when the Zionists were really cocky):
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not
even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because
those Arab villages were destroyed and don't exist any longer, nor do the
maps which showed them, for they were destroyed also and replaced
with Israeli maps showing only Israeli names.
Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta;
Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushu'a in the place of
Tal al-Shuman. There is not one single place built in this country that did
not have a former Arab Population."
--Moshe Dayan, Address to the Technion, Haifa (as quoted in
Ha'aretz, 4 April 1969) http://www.birzeit.edu/crdps/***@.html
http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/destroyed_villages/list.htm

Conservative observers state, that ever since the Hebrews came out of
the desert to kill "everything that breatheth" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17) Israel
was built on the bones of at least two million murdered former inhabitants.
In this latest colonial conquest, 418 Arab villages had been destroyed
by December 1948, and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency registers
726,000 Palestinian refugees. Walter Eytan, Director-General of Israel's
Foreign Ministry, accepts this figure as meticulous, and even suggests that
the number was closer to 800,000. In Lydda alone Zionist terrorists murdered
50,000 Palestinians, men, women and children, both Muslim and Christian.
(See: The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949. by Benny
Morris: ISBN # 0-521-33028-9)
Only about 5 percent of the present day Jews are Semites from Palestine,
whereas 95 percent are Aryan Khazar converts to Judaism from Russia.
"...I know the blasphemy of them WHICH SAY THEY ARE JEWS,
and are not, BUT ARE THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN." (Revelation
2:9, 3:9)
Robert M
2004-05-11 11:40:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Robert M
Hamas stated purpose is to drive Israelis into the sea. They charter
declares them to be terrorists. We must cut off all assistance to the
Palestinian Authority as too much of it filters down to Hamas.
Jordon.
Jordan is already densely populated and the home of Bedouins who are in
control.
Nope, not densly populated, except perhaps for the capital. And it still
is Palestione as set forth by the Balfour declaration designed to give a
homeland to each of the groups then Populating Israel, Judea, Samaria
and Palestine. Israel for Jews, Palestine for Muslims. Israel accepted
every partition, the Muslims always (and Hamas still) wanted everything.
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-14 11:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Robert M
Hamas stated purpose is to drive Israelis into the sea. They charter
declares them to be terrorists. We must cut off all assistance to the
Palestinian Authority as too much of it filters down to Hamas.
Jordon.
Jordan is already densely populated and the home of Bedouins who are in
control.
Nope, not densly populated, except perhaps for the capital. And it still
is Palestione as set forth by the Balfour declaration designed to give a
homeland to each of the groups then Populating Israel, Judea, Samaria
and Palestine. Israel for Jews, Palestine for Muslims. Israel accepted
every partition, the Muslims always (and Hamas still) wanted everything.
The Balfour Declaration made no such division. (Refer:
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1917/balfour.html). The basis for your
argument that Jordan is Palestine is completely false, as is the argument
itself.

Secondly, the Arabs wanted everything because it belonged to them in the
first place. The Zionist Movement had no right to that land, and it still
has no right to it. The only exceptions are where Arabs sold the land in
legitimate transactions with Jewish settlers and buyers.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Røbert M
2004-05-14 13:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Secondly, the Arabs wanted everything because it belonged to them in the
first place.
Nonsense. As far back as there are records, the majority population in
Jerusalem has been Jewish.
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-16 02:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Røbert M
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Secondly, the Arabs wanted everything because it belonged to them in the
first place.
Nonsense. As far back as there are records, the majority population in
Jerusalem has been Jewish.
You have just tried to avoid the issue. I said nothing about the majority of
the population. You mentioned a division by the Balfour Declaration. You
lied. It never made any division at all.

To address your *new* claim that there has always been a majority Jewish
population in Palestine, (that is Israel to you), is a blatant lie. It is so
much of a lie, that not even the Zionist movement made it. Ben Gurion and
Weizmann never made any such claim. The whole point of immigration for the
Zionists during the Mandate period was to *establish* a majority, (see Tom
Segev, "One Palestine, Complete", Benny Morris, "Righteous Victims").
Needless to say, immigration would be hardly necessary should a majority
already exist.

The only nonsense here is your insidious, assernine claims that have no
basis either in fact or even in most fantasy, except your own. The weakness
of your attempt to justify the Zionist theft of Palestine, and your
subsequent avoidance of the discussion, is laughable.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Røbert M.
2004-05-16 10:09:32 UTC
Permalink
{propaganda}
The United States government has no problem realizing where the problem
is.
Read todays news:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20040516/ap
_on_re_mi_ea/us_mideast



Powell Blames Arafat for Hindering Peace
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-16 10:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Røbert M.
{propaganda}
The United States government has no problem realizing where the problem
is.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20040516/ap
_on_re_mi_ea/us_mideast
Your link does not work. You might like to check it before posting it. Not
surprising since this is your second dodge about the issue at hand. It is
completely irrelevant to the issue. Learn to read.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Røbert M
2004-05-16 11:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Røbert M.
{propaganda}
The United States government has no problem realizing where the problem
is.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20040516/ap
_on_re_mi_ea/us_mideast
Your link does not work.
If you used a dedicated NewsReader rather than Outlook Express, it would
work as a clickable link. Otherwise it also works fine for anyone by cut
and paste.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20040516/ap
_on_re_mi_ea/us_mideast
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-16 11:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Røbert M
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Røbert M.
{propaganda}
The United States government has no problem realizing where the problem
is.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20040516/ap
Post by Røbert M
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Røbert M.
_on_re_mi_ea/us_mideast
Your link does not work.
If you used a dedicated NewsReader rather than Outlook Express, it would
work as a clickable link. Otherwise it also works fine for anyone by cut
and paste.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20040516/ap
_on_re_mi_ea/us_mideast
Still failed on cut and paste. No shocks. Why not try actually addressing
this discussion rather tossing up smoke screens.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Røbert M.
2004-05-16 10:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fuzzie Jester
The weakness
of your attempt to justify the Zionist theft of Palestine, and your
subsequent avoidance of the discussion, is laughable.
There is no theft. Palestine exists as ever. You may know of it as
Jordan. It is Hamas that seeks theft by pushing israel into the sea.
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-16 10:14:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Røbert M.
Post by Fuzzie Jester
The weakness
of your attempt to justify the Zionist theft of Palestine, and your
subsequent avoidance of the discussion, is laughable.
There is no theft. Palestine exists as ever. You may know of it as
Jordan. It is Hamas that seeks theft by pushing israel into the sea.
Your usual blathering about irrelevant side issues. Once again, you have
posted unfounded claims, and in the face of evidence, (from 2 sources
references), run with your tail between your legs. We were not even
discussing Hamas.

Either provide the proof, or shut up. Your choice. Mere repetition does not
make something true.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Røbert M
2004-05-16 11:29:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Røbert M.
Post by Fuzzie Jester
The weakness
of your attempt to justify the Zionist theft of Palestine, and your
subsequent avoidance of the discussion, is laughable.
There is no theft. Palestine exists as ever. You may know of it as
Jordan. It is Hamas that seeks theft by pushing israel into the sea.
Your usual blathering about irrelevant side issues.
No, the basis of all the problems. You don't see Syria promising the
right of return for the 10's of thousands of Jews it forced out in 1948
do you?
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-16 11:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Røbert M
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Røbert M.
Post by Fuzzie Jester
The weakness
of your attempt to justify the Zionist theft of Palestine, and your
subsequent avoidance of the discussion, is laughable.
There is no theft. Palestine exists as ever. You may know of it as
Jordan. It is Hamas that seeks theft by pushing israel into the sea.
Your usual blathering about irrelevant side issues.
No, the basis of all the problems. You don't see Syria promising the
right of return for the 10's of thousands of Jews it forced out in 1948
do you?
You still refuse to address the issue that we started with. This is another
smoke screen with no references.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Pastor Frank
2004-05-16 20:45:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Røbert M.
Post by Fuzzie Jester
The weakness
of your attempt to justify the Zionist theft of Palestine, and your
subsequent avoidance of the discussion, is laughable.
There is no theft. Palestine exists as ever. You may know of it as
Jordan. It is Hamas that seeks theft by pushing israel into the sea.
Anbother holocaust denier? There seem to be a lot of those infesting our
pristine religious NGs. See below
--
Pastor Frank

CAUSE OF THE APOCALYPSE: Being proud instead of repentant of the horrific
holocaust of the entire native population of "the promised land", as well as
the continuing colonial brutality against Palestinian natives.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord
thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing
that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them; the Hittites, and the
Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites
as the Lord thy God has commanded thee."
Ezekiel 32:5 "I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the
valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with
your flowing blood..."
Ezekiel 9:5 "Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall
not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and
maidens, little children and women...'"
Deut. 7:1 (KJV)When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you're
about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you...you're to cut
them down and exterminate them. You're to make no compromise with
them nor show them any mercy.
Joshua 10:40 - BBE So Joshua struck all the land, the hill-country, and
the South, and the lowland, and the slopes, and all their kings: he left
none remaining, but he utterly destroyed all that breathed, as God, the God
of Israel, commanded."
1 Samuel 15:3 - BBE Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all
that they have, and don't spare them; but kill both man and woman, infant
and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."
Isaiah 13:16 - BBE Their infants also will be dashed in pieces before
their eyes. Their houses will be ransacked, and their wives raped."
Hosea 13:16 - BBE Samaria will bear her guilt; For she has rebelled
against her God. They will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed
in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open."
Moses in Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the
little ones, and kill every woman, that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the female children, that have not known man by lying with him,
keep alive for yourself.

PROPHETIC APOCALYPSE, (The N-U-C-L-E-A-R consequence of the abomination
above and others like it, employing great noise and heat that can melt
elements, scorch people and destroy the "works of man" on a massive scale)
2Pt:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up.
2Pt:3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat?
Jesus in Matt. 24:16: Then let them which be in Judea flee into the
mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out
of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in
those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning
of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be
saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus in Lk:23:30: Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on
us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Rv:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name
of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give
him glory.
Pastor Frank
2004-05-14 21:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Robert M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Robert M
Hamas stated purpose is to drive Israelis into the sea. They charter
declares them to be terrorists. We must cut off all assistance to the
Palestinian Authority as too much of it filters down to Hamas.
Jordon.
Jordan is already densely populated and the home of Bedouins who
are
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Robert M
Post by Pastor Frank
in control.
Nope, not densly populated, except perhaps for the capital. And it still
is Palestione as set forth by the Balfour declaration designed to give a
homeland to each of the groups then Populating Israel, Judea, Samaria
and Palestine. Israel for Jews, Palestine for Muslims. Israel accepted
every partition, the Muslims always (and Hamas still) wanted everything.
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1917/balfour.html). The basis for your
argument that Jordan is Palestine is completely false, as is the argument
itself.
Secondly, the Arabs wanted everything because it belonged to them in the
first place. The Zionist Movement had no right to that land, and it still
has no right to it. The only exceptions are where Arabs sold the land in
legitimate transactions with Jewish settlers and buyers.
Fuzzie Jester
We are mixing apples and oranges. There is nothing intrinsically wrong
with Jews taking over Palestine, but they should do it the legal way,
respecting owners, buying property, compensating owners, like it's done in
civilized countries. Furthermore there is a big difference between
conquering an area and making all people therein equal citizen of a new
country called Israel, and ethnically cleansing an entire country taking
ownership of land by force.
We must NOT allow any country in the world to create a massive wave of
refugees (at our expense at that), taking possession of their land by force.
For if we allow one country to do that, than we should not complain when
another does that to us.
Once terrorists are able to explode nuclear mines in our cities, all
city-dwellers in the world will be "refugees", for no one knows which city
will be next. It is the most stupid thing imaginable to antagonize a large
group of the world's population, like Muslims, in our nuclear age.
--
Pastor Frank

CAUSE OF THE APOCALYPSE: Being proud instead of repentant of the horrific
holocaust of the entire native population of "the promised land", as well as
the continuing colonial brutality against Palestinian natives.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord
thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing
that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them; the Hittites, and the
Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites
as the Lord thy God has commanded thee."
Ezekiel 32:5 "I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the
valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with
your flowing blood..."
Ezekiel 9:5 "Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall
not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and
maidens, little children and women...'"
Deut. 7:1 (KJV)When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you're
about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you...you're to cut
them down and exterminate them. You're to make no compromise with
them nor show them any mercy.
Joshua 10:40 - BBE So Joshua struck all the land, the hill-country, and
the South, and the lowland, and the slopes, and all their kings: he left
none remaining, but he utterly destroyed all that breathed, as God, the God
of Israel, commanded."
1 Samuel 15:3 - BBE Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all
that they have, and don't spare them; but kill both man and woman, infant
and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."
Isaiah 13:16 - BBE Their infants also will be dashed in pieces before
their eyes. Their houses will be ransacked, and their wives raped."
Hosea 13:16 - BBE Samaria will bear her guilt; For she has rebelled
against her God. They will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed
in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open."
Moses in Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the
little ones, and kill every woman, that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the female children, that have not known man by lying with him,
keep alive for yourself.

PROPHETIC APOCALYPSE, (The N-U-C-L-E-A-R consequence of the abomination
above and others like it, employing great noise and heat that can melt
elements, scorch people and destroy the "works of man" on a massive scale)
2Pt:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up.
2Pt:3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat?
Jesus in Matt. 24:16: Then let them which be in Judea flee into the
mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out
of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in
those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning
of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be
saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus in Lk:23:30: Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on
us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Rv:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name
of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give
him glory.
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-16 02:32:16 UTC
Permalink
[snipped]
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Fuzzie Jester
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1917/balfour.html). The basis for your
argument that Jordan is Palestine is completely false, as is the argument
itself.
Secondly, the Arabs wanted everything because it belonged to them in the
first place. The Zionist Movement had no right to that land, and it still
has no right to it. The only exceptions are where Arabs sold the land in
legitimate transactions with Jewish settlers and buyers.
We are mixing apples and oranges. There is nothing intrinsically wrong
with Jews taking over Palestine, but they should do it the legal way,
respecting owners, buying property, compensating owners, like it's done in
civilized countries. Furthermore there is a big difference between
conquering an area and making all people therein equal citizen of a new
country called Israel, and ethnically cleansing an entire country taking
ownership of land by force.
I don't think we are "mixing apples and oranges". I have already agreed with
you that the sale of land to Jewish people was both legitimate and legal. In
such cases, if the Arabs regret the sale now, it is bad luck. The Jewish
settlers who bought that land have a right to do what they please with it.
Along a similar vein, Arabs evicted from Jewish-owned land have no basis of
complaint, as it legally belongs to a Jewish family. The fact that so many
Arabs were willing to sell the land from under the tenant farmers says a lot
about the attitude of said Arab land owners at the time.
Post by Pastor Frank
We must NOT allow any country in the world to create a massive wave of
refugees (at our expense at that), taking possession of their land by force.
For if we allow one country to do that, than we should not complain when
another does that to us.
Absolutely. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, as the
expression goes. Murder and violations of human rights are just that, no
matter who is doing it.
Post by Pastor Frank
Once terrorists are able to explode nuclear mines in our cities, all
city-dwellers in the world will be "refugees", for no one knows which city
will be next. It is the most stupid thing imaginable to antagonize a large
group of the world's population, like Muslims, in our nuclear age.
While it may happen, I am not sure it is a realistic threat. More
conventional weapons would be more suitable for terrorist cells. For a
guerilla, low-tech rules. It is cheap, it is usually difficult to detect
until it is too late, and is easily deployed.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Pastor Frank
2004-05-16 07:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Pastor Frank
We are mixing apples and oranges. There is nothing intrinsically wrong
with Jews taking over Palestine, but they should do it the legal way,
respecting owners, buying property, compensating owners, like it's done in
civilized countries. Furthermore there is a big difference between
conquering an area and making all people therein equal citizen of a new
country called Israel, and ethnically cleansing an entire country taking
ownership of land by force.
I don't think we are "mixing apples and oranges". I have already agreed with
you that the sale of land to Jewish people was both legitimate and legal. In
such cases, if the Arabs regret the sale now, it is bad luck. The Jewish
settlers who bought that land have a right to do what they please with it.
Along a similar vein, Arabs evicted from Jewish-owned land have no basis of
complaint, as it legally belongs to a Jewish family. The fact that so many
Arabs were willing to sell the land from under the tenant farmers says a lot
about the attitude of said Arab land owners at the time.
Right. But how much land was legally obtained in comparison to land
being ethnically cleansed by force of Jewish terrorists like the Stern Gang
etc. BTW evictions are a touchy subject, for squatters have rights too, and
squatter's rights i.e. the value of any "improvements" the squatter made to
the property over years of unopposed occupancy is a legitmate claim
recognised in law in every civilized country.
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Pastor Frank
Once terrorists are able to explode nuclear mines in our cities, all
city-dwellers in the world will be "refugees", for no one knows which city
will be next. It is the most stupid thing imaginable to antagonize a large
group of the world's population, like Muslims, in our nuclear age.
While it may happen, I am not sure it is a realistic threat. More
conventional weapons would be more suitable for terrorist cells. For a
guerilla, low-tech rules. It is cheap, it is usually difficult to detect
until it is too late, and is easily deployed.
Most people don't realise, that our entire foreign policy rests upon
trust of impoverished and corrupt Russian Generals not to sell nuclear
materials and know-how on the black market. How difficult would it be for
Bin Laden et al to buy and to disassemble a nuclear warhead and make small
back-pack battle-nukes out of it? Then, how difficult would it be to import
such portable nukes via drug-routes and mine our cities with them?
Since you have given this subject some thought, I would be interested in
what you think the aftermath of such an attack would be, beyond futile
nuclear retaliation and America becoming a Fascist dictatorship?
America is now the only superpower in the world and subject to the
diseases inherent to monopolies. It didn't take long for it to demonstrate
"the arrogance of power", and by their Iraq adventure make the UN
irrelevant.
--
Pastor Frank

Conservative observers state, that ever since the Hebrews came out of
the desert to kill "everything that breatheth" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17) Israel
was built on the bones of at least two million murdered former inhabitants.
In this latest colonial conquest, 418 Arab villages had been destroyed
by December 1948, and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency registers
726,000 Palestinian refugees. Walter Eytan, Director-General of Israel's
Foreign Ministry, accepts this figure as meticulous, and even suggests that
the number was closer to 800,000. In Lydda alone Zionist terrorists murdered
50,000 Palestinians, men, women and children, both Muslim and Christian.
(See: The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949. by Benny
Morris: ISBN # 0-521-33028-9)
Only about 5 percent of the present day Jews are Semites from Palestine,
whereas 95 percent are Arian Khazar converts to Judaism from Russia.
"...I know the blasphemy of them WHICH SAY THEY ARE JEWS,
and are not, BUT ARE THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN." (Revelation
2:9, 3:9)

Evictions from Lydda-Ramle. Lydda death march fatalities: 335

PETITION TO WORLD LEADERS
We CHRISTIANS FOR UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHTS seek to have
human rights made mandatory everywhere. Presently we want Zionist
aggression, oppression, occupation and colonialism in the Middle East
declared a "Crime against Humanity", which must be adjudicated.
We want occupation and confiscation of land made illegal, and the
appalling conditions imposed on occupied civilian populations lifted.
We want an International Court with power to resolve territorial
disputes established NOW, so that the dispossessed and ethnically
cleansed can sue for redress, instead of having to draw scant
attention to their plight by needing to blow themselves up in the
presence of their most ruthless enemies.
Any government conducting or supporting colonialism or other human
rights abuses, must be declared a rogue state and their leaders and
perpetrators must face criminal charges. Supporting, encouraging or
financing human and civil rights abusers must be considered a hate crime.
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-16 10:02:18 UTC
Permalink
[snipped]
Post by Pastor Frank
Right. But how much land was legally obtained in comparison to land
being ethnically cleansed by force of Jewish terrorists like the Stern Gang
etc. BTW evictions are a touchy subject, for squatters have rights too, and
squatter's rights i.e. the value of any "improvements" the squatter made to
the property over years of unopposed occupancy is a legitmate claim
recognised in law in every civilized country.
The legal recognition of tenant rights would be something taken for granted
in our time, and in the west. However, talking about Mandate Palestine is
another story. I would doubt that such rights were written into any legal
code for the region. However, I could be wrong in this assumption.

If such laws were not written for that region, then legally there is no room
for complaint from the Arabs, especially considering that it was Arabs who
sold the land. However, from a moral viewpoint, things may be different.

Even if such laws were written for the Mandate, why would the Zionists
actually care? They have shown a remarkable disregard for any law,
international or otherwise.

[snipped]
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Fuzzie Jester
While it may happen, I am not sure it is a realistic threat. More
conventional weapons would be more suitable for terrorist cells. For a
guerilla, low-tech rules. It is cheap, it is usually difficult to detect
until it is too late, and is easily deployed.
Most people don't realise, that our entire foreign policy rests upon
trust of impoverished and corrupt Russian Generals not to sell nuclear
materials and know-how on the black market. How difficult would it be for
Bin Laden et al to buy and to disassemble a nuclear warhead and make small
back-pack battle-nukes out of it? Then, how difficult would it be to import
such portable nukes via drug-routes and mine our cities with them?
I think it is not the Russian generals that we need to worry about. It is
the states like North Korea, Pakistan and others who have no such scruples
toward killing people.

In addition, the development of such weapons, even from reverse engineering,
takes a considerable amount of skill and expertise. This expertise is not
something that the average bomb-maker would have. So, the first obstacle
would have to be the knowledge base to develop suitably small device.

Secondly, there is the development of such a small device with a worthwhile
yield and the ability to sustain the needed chain-reaction for detonation.
As far as I know, no one has made such a device. Hence, these terrorists
would be pioneers in the field. This would require huge resources in both
capital, knowledge and equipment for testing. This would only be made more
difficult by the requirement of mobility that most terrorist organisations
have. Such facilities are remarkably difficult to move.

At the moment, I think an organisation is more likely to choose low-tech,
high mobile solutions. These are easily deployed in greater numbers and
provide a longer term ability to sustain a campaign against selected
targets. This is not to preclude such developments happening in the future.
Post by Pastor Frank
Since you have given this subject some thought, I would be interested in
what you think the aftermath of such an attack would be, beyond futile
nuclear retaliation and America becoming a Fascist dictatorship?
America is now the only superpower in the world and subject to the
diseases inherent to monopolies. It didn't take long for it to demonstrate
"the arrogance of power", and by their Iraq adventure make the UN
irrelevant.
I am really not sure what the aftermath would be. I do honestly believe that
the USA would not retaliate at the nuclear level. I mean, who would the
target be? They went into Iraq and Afghanistan and Bin Laden is still at
large and capable of large scale operations. Any such retaliation would only
affect innocents by the score, and increase anti-US sentiment. It may even
drive more into the arms of the very people they seek to destroy, (though a
nuke strike is hardly required for that to happen).

Beyond that, I could not say, honestly.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Pastor Frank
2004-05-16 20:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Pastor Frank
Right. But how much land was legally obtained in comparison to land
being ethnically cleansed by force of Jewish terrorists like the Stern
Gang
Post by Pastor Frank
etc. BTW evictions are a touchy subject, for squatters have rights too,
and
Post by Pastor Frank
squatter's rights i.e. the value of any "improvements" the squatter made
to
Post by Pastor Frank
the property over years of unopposed occupancy is a legitmate claim
recognised in law in every civilized country.
The legal recognition of tenant rights would be something taken for granted
in our time, and in the west. However, talking about Mandate Palestine is
another story. I would doubt that such rights were written into any legal
code for the region. However, I could be wrong in this assumption.
If such laws were not written for that region, then legally there is no room
for complaint from the Arabs, especially considering that it was Arabs who
sold the land. However, from a moral viewpoint, things may be different.
Even if such laws were written for the Mandate, why would the Zionists
actually care? They have shown a remarkable disregard for any law,
international or otherwise.
You brought up the point of Jews having the right to evict tenants from
land they obtained legally. Apart from tenants' rights, the question
therefore is how much land was obtained legally in comparison to land
obtained by illegal means, i.e. Jewish terrorist groups, like the Stern Gang
causing Palestinians to flee into refugee camps. Do you have any figures?
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Pastor Frank
Most people don't realise, that our entire foreign policy rests upon
trust of impoverished and corrupt Russian Generals not to sell nuclear
materials and know-how on the black market. How difficult would it be for
Bin Laden et al to buy and to disassemble a nuclear warhead and make small
back-pack battle-nukes out of it? Then, how difficult would it be to
import such portable nukes via drug-routes and mine our cities with
them?
Post by Fuzzie Jester
I think it is not the Russian generals that we need to worry about. It is
the states like North Korea, Pakistan and others who have no such scruples
toward killing people.
I find that answer puzzling. What stats do you have, regard N.Korea,
Pakistan etc. that they have "no scruples toward killing people" any less
than countries with much more blood on their hands?
Post by Fuzzie Jester
In addition, the development of such weapons, even from reverse engineering,
takes a considerable amount of skill and expertise. This expertise is not
something that the average bomb-maker would have. So, the first obstacle
would have to be the knowledge base to develop suitably small device.
Secondly, there is the development of such a small device with a worthwhile
yield and the ability to sustain the needed chain-reaction for detonation.
As far as I know, no one has made such a device. Hence, these terrorists
would be pioneers in the field.
I think you are far behind the times here. The superpowers have had
nuclear devices small enough to fit into standard issue artillery shells for
at least 30 years. There is a back-pack version, which can take out a 1Km
radius. To convert a multi head Intercontinental missile payload into a
number of small bak-pack versions would require a precision detonation of a
type of explosive which would compress the Plutonium halves without
disintegrating them before the chain-reaction is initiated. This is a
considerable technical problem, but not one beyond what the Bin Ladens of
this world could pay for quite easily.
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Pastor Frank
Since you have given this subject some thought, I would be
interested
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Pastor Frank
in what you think the aftermath of such an attack would be, beyond
futile
Post by Fuzzie Jester
Post by Pastor Frank
nuclear retaliation and America becoming a Fascist dictatorship?
America is now the only superpower in the world and subject to the
diseases inherent to monopolies. It didn't take long for it to demonstrate
"the arrogance of power", and by their Iraq adventure make the UN
irrelevant.
I am really not sure what the aftermath would be. I do honestly believe that
the USA would not retaliate at the nuclear level. I mean, who would the
target be?
They might very well retaliate against N.Korea and Iran, and that is why
most governments (especially Pakistan) of the world seem so eager to appear
on side of the USA. They want to ensure, that when the inevitable happens,
they are not seen as potential targets for retaliation.
Post by Fuzzie Jester
They went into Iraq and Afghanistan and Bin Laden is still at
large and capable of large scale operations. Any such retaliation would only
affect innocents by the score, and increase anti-US sentiment. It may even
drive more into the arms of the very people they seek to destroy, (though a
nuke strike is hardly required for that to happen).
Beyond that, I could not say, honestly.
All of these are mere incidental to terrorist operations. Bin Laden is
only a talking head and financier, taking him out would only make terrorism
worse, as he would become another famous martyr. His speeches would be
disseminated via internet all over the world to increase ardency. It is this
ardency which America has to fear, because like Christian martyrs, it will
only help to spread the faith.
America (and Israel) will get good results in proportion to the amount
of rebuilding contracts go to local contractors, who will be able to employ
chronically unemployed youth who are presently ready and most willing to
commit suicide for a cause. There is a correlation between demographics
especially large numbers of unemployed youth without hope, and terrorism.
The way both handle their occupations, it makes one wonder whether they
are really interested in "rebuilding". Their propaganda sounds that way, but
their actions are designed to leave an impoverished leaderless mass of
embittered people, who will need to fight among themselves to sort tings
out, and till they do, and even long after, lack the credibility to
challenge ZioAmerican hegemony in the region. Everything they say or do that
is contrary to ZioAmerican purposes, will be considered retaliation against
some past Western misdeeds and therefore lacking credibility. To achieve
that end Rumsfeld might well have staged prisoner-abuse, accompanied by lots
of evidence, on purpose. Israel has been using that same tactic for 50
years, with the result, that nothing Palestinians say is taken seriously.
You can rest assured, that nothing Iraqis say will be taken seriously
either, for a very long time indeed!!
--
Pastor Frank

Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
marvin
2004-05-17 19:47:23 UTC
Permalink
You first 'pastor'. You give your home to the Indians. Your christian
ancestors stole this land from them, now give it back. People like YOU
are the reason I developed a little slogan for myself, "I do believe
in God, I just don't trust anyone who works for him"

PS-How are the alter boyzzzzzzz?
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-20 06:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by marvin
You first 'pastor'. You give your home to the Indians. Your christian
ancestors stole this land from them, now give it back. People like YOU
are the reason I developed a little slogan for myself, "I do believe
in God, I just don't trust anyone who works for him"
PS-How are the alter boyzzzzzzz?
And who was supposed to be second"?
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Aaron
2004-06-03 13:06:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Robert M
Hamas stated purpose is to drive Israelis into the sea. They charter
declares them to be terrorists. We must cut off all assistance to the
Palestinian Authority as too much of it filters down to Hamas.
Jordon.
Jordan is already densely populated and the home of Bedouins who are in
control.
Nope, not densly populated, except perhaps for the capital. And it still
is Palestione as set forth by the Balfour declaration designed to give a
homeland to each of the groups then Populating Israel, Judea, Samaria
and Palestine. Israel for Jews, Palestine for Muslims. Israel accepted
every partition, the Muslims always (and Hamas still) wanted everything.
The Blafour Declaration (1917) was to re-establish Israel as the
Jewish Homelend. The population at that time was just over 70%
Jewish. The land set aside was all of what is now Israel, all of what
is now Jordan, and part of what is now Iraq.

In 1922, Brittain gave 4/5 of the proposed Jewish homeland to the
"palestinians" so that they could create another culturally and
ethnically identical country and to motivate them to leave the
remaining fifth of Israel alone. This new terrorist nation was
Transjordan.

In 1947, the UN decided to take even more land away from before
allowing Israel to establish "original borders." Obviously, the UN
does not believe in the Bible. The Arabs rejected this plan and
refused to establish another palestinian nationthe Mufti, Haj Amin Al
Husseini publically announced "I declare a holy war, my Muslim
brothers! Murder them all!"

In 1948, when Israel declared independence from Britain the Arabs
invaded. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, and Iraq
invaded Israel with military equipment and outnumbering the Jewish
farmers by over 100 to 1. The Arabs failed to defeat the jews who
were armed only with fram tools. God must have protected Israel.

After this invasion, Transjordan ilegally anexed the west bank changed
its name to Jordan and declared new "original boundries." Under
international Law the agressor cannot anex land, but a defending
nation can anex land from an attacking nation.

In 1948, 720,000 arabs left Israel when the arab coultries promised to
"murder all the Jews" if their "muslim brother" would get out of the
way. The Arab nations have put these refugees into concentration
camps and begun brain washing them to believe that the Christians and
Jews are forcing them to do this.

At the same time 600,000 Jews fled from persecution in Arab countries
and were welcomed into Israel.

In 1949, the Arab nations agreed to an end of hostilities against
Israel, but refused to close their concentration camps.

in 1967, the Arabs invaded Israel again. This time, Israel retook the
West Bank, Gaza, and the Sinai. Under international Law, Israel had
the right to anex these lands.

In 1968 & 1969, Yasser Arafat, having been deported from his native
Egypt for political crimes, established the PLO to liberate
"palestinians" from "Jordanian tyrrany." He led his terrorists to
attack Jordan in an attempt to overthrow King Hussien. Arafat and
Hussein signed a peace treaty, which Arafat violated by continuing
agression against Jordan. King Hussien offered to make Arafat Prime
Minister of Joradan. Arafat refused to take this secondary position.
Arafat did take money from other Arab nations to turn his violence
against Israel.

In 1973, the Arabs attacked Israel again and again failed to destroy a
nation that they out number 10, 000 to 1. In exchange for peace,
Iseal gave Egypt the Sinai Desert, but there is still no peace.

The Arabs are the agressors in Israel.
Jean Smith
2004-06-03 18:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aaron
The Blafour Declaration (1917) was to re-establish Israel as the
Jewish Homelend. The population at that time was just over 70%
Jewish. The land set aside was all of what is now Israel, all of what
is now Jordan, and part of what is now Iraq.
So T.E. Lawrence's promise of independence to the Arabs who drove the Turks
out was an empty one.
Fuzzie Jester
2004-06-05 14:28:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jean Smith
Post by Aaron
The Blafour Declaration (1917) was to re-establish Israel as the
Jewish Homelend. The population at that time was just over 70%
Jewish. The land set aside was all of what is now Israel, all of what
is now Jordan, and part of what is now Iraq.
So T.E. Lawrence's promise of independence to the Arabs who drove the Turks
out was an empty one.
Save yourself the time and ignore the troll.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Pastor Frank
2004-06-11 16:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aaron
Post by Robert M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Robert M
Hamas stated purpose is to drive Israelis into the sea. They charter
declares them to be terrorists. We must cut off all assistance to the
Palestinian Authority as too much of it filters down to Hamas.
Jordon.
Jordan is already densely populated and the home of Bedouins who are in
control.
Nope, not densly populated, except perhaps for the capital. And it still
is Palestione as set forth by the Balfour declaration designed to give a
homeland to each of the groups then Populating Israel, Judea, Samaria
and Palestine. Israel for Jews, Palestine for Muslims. Israel accepted
every partition, the Muslims always (and Hamas still) wanted everything.
The Blafour Declaration (1917) was to re-establish Israel as the
Jewish Homelend. The population at that time was just over 70%
Jewish. The land set aside was all of what is now Israel, all of what
is now Jordan, and part of what is now Iraq.
In 1922, Brittain gave 4/5 of the proposed Jewish homeland to the
"palestinians" so that they could create another culturally and
ethnically identical country and to motivate them to leave the
remaining fifth of Israel alone. This new terrorist nation was
Transjordan.
In 1947, the UN decided to take even more land away from before
allowing Israel to establish "original borders." Obviously, the UN
does not believe in the Bible. The Arabs rejected this plan and
refused to establish another palestinian nationthe Mufti, Haj Amin Al
Husseini publically announced "I declare a holy war, my Muslim
brothers! Murder them all!"
In 1948, when Israel declared independence from Britain the Arabs
invaded. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, and Iraq
invaded Israel with military equipment and outnumbering the Jewish
farmers by over 100 to 1. The Arabs failed to defeat the jews who
were armed only with fram tools. God must have protected Israel.
After this invasion, Transjordan ilegally anexed the west bank changed
its name to Jordan and declared new "original boundries." Under
international Law the agressor cannot anex land, but a defending
nation can anex land from an attacking nation.
In 1948, 720,000 arabs left Israel when the arab coultries promised to
"murder all the Jews" if their "muslim brother" would get out of the
way. The Arab nations have put these refugees into concentration
camps and begun brain washing them to believe that the Christians and
Jews are forcing them to do this.
At the same time 600,000 Jews fled from persecution in Arab countries
and were welcomed into Israel.
In 1949, the Arab nations agreed to an end of hostilities against
Israel, but refused to close their concentration camps.
in 1967, the Arabs invaded Israel again. This time, Israel retook the
West Bank, Gaza, and the Sinai. Under international Law, Israel had
the right to anex these lands.
In 1968 & 1969, Yasser Arafat, having been deported from his native
Egypt for political crimes, established the PLO to liberate
"palestinians" from "Jordanian tyrrany." He led his terrorists to
attack Jordan in an attempt to overthrow King Hussien. Arafat and
Hussein signed a peace treaty, which Arafat violated by continuing
agression against Jordan. King Hussien offered to make Arafat Prime
Minister of Joradan. Arafat refused to take this secondary position.
Arafat did take money from other Arab nations to turn his violence
against Israel.
In 1973, the Arabs attacked Israel again and again failed to destroy a
nation that they out number 10, 000 to 1. In exchange for peace,
Iseal gave Egypt the Sinai Desert, but there is still no peace.
The Arabs are the agressors in Israel.
You sound like Hitler justifying the subjugation of Europe and the
persecution of Jews. Until you and all Jews and OT believers repent of the
holocaust documented below and let displaced refugees go back to their
homes, or compensate them for the loss of their property, you will never see
peace, and will drag us all into a nuclear war.

Pastor Frank

CAUSE OF THE APOCALYPSE: Being proud instead of repentant of the horrific
holocaust of the entire native population of "the promised land", as well as
the continuing colonial brutality against Palestinian natives. "Leave
nothing alive that breatheth" indeed!!!!!!!!
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord
thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing
that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them; the Hittites, and the
Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites
as the Lord thy God has commanded thee."
Ezekiel 32:5 "I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the
valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with
your flowing blood..."
Ezekiel 9:5 "Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall
not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and
maidens, little children and women...'"
Deut. 7:1 (KJV)When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you're
about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you...you're to cut
them down and exterminate them. You're to make no compromise with
them nor show them any mercy.
Joshua 10:40 - BBE So Joshua struck all the land, the hill-country, and
the South, and the lowland, and the slopes, and all their kings: he left
none remaining, but he utterly destroyed all that breathed, as God, the God
of Israel, commanded."
1 Samuel 15:3 - BBE Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all
that they have, and don't spare them; but kill both man and woman, infant
and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."
Isaiah 13:16 - BBE Their infants also will be dashed in pieces before
their eyes. Their houses will be ransacked, and their wives raped."
Hosea 13:16 - BBE Samaria will bear her guilt; For she has rebelled
against her God. They will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed
in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open."
Moses in Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the
little ones, and kill every woman, that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the female children, that have not known man by lying with him,
keep alive for yourself.

PROPHETIC APOCALYPSE, (The N-U-C-L-E-A-R consequence of the abomination
above and others like it, employing great noise and heat that can melt
elements, scorch people and destroy the "works of man" on a massive scale)
2Pt:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up.
2Pt:3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat?
Jesus in Matt. 24:16: Then let them which be in Judea flee into the
mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out
of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in
those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning
of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be
saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus in Lk:23:30: Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on
us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Rv:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name
of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give
him glory.
Jean Smith
2004-06-12 14:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Aaron
Post by Robert M
Post by Pastor Frank
Post by Robert M
Hamas stated purpose is to drive Israelis into the sea. They charter
declares them to be terrorists. We must cut off all assistance to the
Palestinian Authority as too much of it filters down to Hamas.
Jordon.
Jordan is already densely populated and the home of Bedouins who
are in
Post by Aaron
Post by Robert M
Post by Pastor Frank
control.
Nope, not densly populated, except perhaps for the capital. And it still
is Palestione as set forth by the Balfour declaration designed to give a
homeland to each of the groups then Populating Israel, Judea, Samaria
and Palestine. Israel for Jews, Palestine for Muslims. Israel accepted
every partition, the Muslims always (and Hamas still) wanted everything.
The Blafour Declaration (1917) was to re-establish Israel as the
Jewish Homelend. The population at that time was just over 70%
Jewish. The land set aside was all of what is now Israel, all of what
is now Jordan, and part of what is now Iraq.
The Arabs drove out the Turks so that Israel could be created? That sounds
like a stretch.

asspanda
2004-05-19 04:32:43 UTC
Permalink
The ASSPANDA has you fuckos in his sights! A greater conglomeration of
pious self righteous fuckwittery has not passed the ASSPANDA's view
since he took a dump this morning. Aryan Jackasses and Pastor
Assclowns will tremble in fear when the ASSPANDA rears his mighty head
and roars:
"WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?"
Post by Honest Aryan
Post by Pastor Frank
Wrong!!!! Implementation of international law and United Nations
resolutions concerning the Palestinian refugees was firmly rejected by the
USA-Israeli Alliance, and no Palestinian could negotiate without at least
some hope of getting something in return from them, apart from a tiny
impoverished native "homeland" after the South African apartheid model.
Agreed but, given the degree of Semitism
in "mainstream" US politics, the senator probably
felt the need for some back-pedalling to avoid
having his arguments dismissed with the usual
"anti-Semitism" canard, making it all the more
necessary for the "Poor Jews" crapola to be
flushed down around the U-bend of history.
"Not only in American business and cultural life and in
Israel's military triumphs have the Jews in this
century struck back against their age-old enemies. The
Bolshevik Revolution and some of its aftermath
represented, from one perspective, Jewish revenge.
As the Tsarist government in the late-nineteenth
century found itself increasingly in confrontation
with the Empire's Jewish population, there was a
strong leftist and revolutionary drift among the
younger Jewish generations. Most became members of the
Bund, a democratic, peaceful, labor union
organization. But some became bomb-throwing anarchists
and revolutionary Communists. In the Bolshevik
government that was in control of most of Russia by
1920, three out of the six members of the Politburo
executive were Jews, not counting Lenin himself whose
father had a Jewish grandparent.
The founders of the Soviet secret police (later KGB),
headquartered in Lubyanka prison in Moscow, were
mostly Jews. Jews also took leadership roles, down
into the early 1950s, in the Communist parties of
Germany, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Rumania.
In the struggle for succession to Lenin in the 1920s,
leading to the defeat and exile of the Jewish Trotsky
Bronstein, most of the high-level Soviet Jews made the
mistake of supporting Stalin, an Asiatic anti-Semite
who in the purge trials in the mid-1930s eventually
eliminated these Jewish `Old Bolsheviks'. But even to
some degree after the Great Purge, Jews were still
prevalent in powerful Soviet government positions and
many of Stalin's cohorts in the 1940s had Jewish wives.
Here is a cool appraisal of Stalin's Jews, published in
1994 by the Russian writer Arkady Vaksberg.
`During the heyday of the Cold War, American Jewish
publicists spent a lot of time denying that - as 1930s
anti-Semites claimed - Jews played a disproportionately
important role in Soviet and world Communism. The
truth is until the early 1950s Jews did play such
a role, and there is nothing to be ashamed of. In
time, Jews will learn to take pride in the record of
the Jewish Communists in the Soviet Union and
elsewhere. It was a species of striking back.'"
(chapter entitled `Stalin's Jews', p. 364 of "The Jewish
Experience", Castle Books, 1996, by Jewish historian Norman
F. Cantor, professor of history at New York University.)
Fuzzie Jester
2004-05-20 06:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Yeah yeah.
--
Fuzzie Jester

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very
angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."
- Douglas Adams
Post by asspanda
The ASSPANDA has you fuckos in his sights! A greater conglomeration of
pious self righteous fuckwittery has not passed the ASSPANDA's view
since he took a dump this morning. Aryan Jackasses and Pastor
Assclowns will tremble in fear when the ASSPANDA rears his mighty head
"WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?"
Post by Honest Aryan
Post by Pastor Frank
Wrong!!!! Implementation of international law and United Nations
resolutions concerning the Palestinian refugees was firmly rejected by the
USA-Israeli Alliance, and no Palestinian could negotiate without at least
some hope of getting something in return from them, apart from a tiny
impoverished native "homeland" after the South African apartheid model.
Agreed but, given the degree of Semitism
in "mainstream" US politics, the senator probably
felt the need for some back-pedalling to avoid
having his arguments dismissed with the usual
"anti-Semitism" canard, making it all the more
necessary for the "Poor Jews" crapola to be
flushed down around the U-bend of history.
"Not only in American business and cultural life and in
Israel's military triumphs have the Jews in this
century struck back against their age-old enemies. The
Bolshevik Revolution and some of its aftermath
represented, from one perspective, Jewish revenge.
As the Tsarist government in the late-nineteenth
century found itself increasingly in confrontation
with the Empire's Jewish population, there was a
strong leftist and revolutionary drift among the
younger Jewish generations. Most became members of the
Bund, a democratic, peaceful, labor union
organization. But some became bomb-throwing anarchists
and revolutionary Communists. In the Bolshevik
government that was in control of most of Russia by
1920, three out of the six members of the Politburo
executive were Jews, not counting Lenin himself whose
father had a Jewish grandparent.
The founders of the Soviet secret police (later KGB),
headquartered in Lubyanka prison in Moscow, were
mostly Jews. Jews also took leadership roles, down
into the early 1950s, in the Communist parties of
Germany, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Rumania.
In the struggle for succession to Lenin in the 1920s,
leading to the defeat and exile of the Jewish Trotsky
Bronstein, most of the high-level Soviet Jews made the
mistake of supporting Stalin, an Asiatic anti-Semite
who in the purge trials in the mid-1930s eventually
eliminated these Jewish `Old Bolsheviks'. But even to
some degree after the Great Purge, Jews were still
prevalent in powerful Soviet government positions and
many of Stalin's cohorts in the 1940s had Jewish wives.
Here is a cool appraisal of Stalin's Jews, published in
1994 by the Russian writer Arkady Vaksberg.
`During the heyday of the Cold War, American Jewish
publicists spent a lot of time denying that - as 1930s
anti-Semites claimed - Jews played a disproportionately
important role in Soviet and world Communism. The
truth is until the early 1950s Jews did play such
a role, and there is nothing to be ashamed of. In
time, Jews will learn to take pride in the record of
the Jewish Communists in the Soviet Union and
elsewhere. It was a species of striking back.'"
(chapter entitled `Stalin's Jews', p. 364 of "The Jewish
Experience", Castle Books, 1996, by Jewish historian Norman
F. Cantor, professor of history at New York University.)
Honest Aryan
2004-06-03 23:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Report of Former Vice President Spiro Agnew

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-controlledpress-reports.html#anchor800655

"The people who own and manage national impact media are Jewish
and, with other influential Jews, helped create a disastrous
U.S. Mideast policy. All you have to do is check the real policy
makers and owners and you find a much higher concentration of
Jewish people than you're going to find in the population. By
national impact media I am referring tot he major news wire
services, pollsters, Time and Newsweek Magazines, thye New York
Times, Washington Post, and the International Herald Tribune.
For example, CBS' Mr. (William) Paley's Jewish. Mr. Julian Goodman,
who runs NBC, and there's a Leonard Goldenson at ABC. Mrs. Katherine
Graham owns the Washington Post and Mr. Sulzberger the New York
Times. They are all Jews!

You go down the line in that fashion... not just with ownership but
go down to the managing posts and discretionary posts... and you'll
find that through their aggressiveness and their inventiveness, they
now dominate the news media. Not only in the media, but in academic
communities, the financial communities, in the foundations, in all
sorts of highly visible and influential services that involve the
public, they now have a tremendous voice.

Our policy in the Middle East in my judgement is disastrous, because
it's not even handed. I see no reason why hearly half the foreign
aid this nation has to give goes to Israel, except for the influence
of this Zionist lobby. I think the power of the news media is in the
hands of a few people... it's not subject to control of the voters,
it's subject only to the whim of the board of directors."

--
Visit the Cybermuseum of BBC War Crimes at:
http://users.bluecarrots.com/rbisto/BBC/BBC.html
Admission *FREE* - even for libruls!
Honest Aryan
2004-06-06 09:42:13 UTC
Permalink
"...It would be interesting to know how many of those American taxpayers
believe they and their families have received as much from the U.S.
Treasury as has everyone who has chosen to become a citizen of Israel.
But it's a question that will never occur to the American public because,
so long as America's mainstream media, Congress and president
maintain their pact of silence, few Americans will ever know the true cost
of Israel to U.S. taxpayers."

http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

"U.S Financial Aid To Israel:
Figures, Facts, and Impact

Summary

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997) Aid to Israel

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans Grand Total
$74,157,600,000 $84,854,827,200

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid) Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$9,047,227,200 $49,936,680,000

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$1,650,000,000 $134,791,507,200

Grand Total Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$84,854,827,200 $23,240

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630


Special Reports:

•Congress Watch: A Conservative Total for U.S. Aid to Israel:
$91 Billion - and Counting

•Congressional Research Report on Israel: US Foreign
Assistance by Clyde Mark (213K pdf file)

•U.S. Aid To Israel: The Strategic Functions

•U.S. Aid to Israel: What U.S. Taxpayer Should Know

•U.S. Aid to Israel: Interpreting the 'Strategic Relationship'

•The Cost of Israel to U.S. Taxpayers: True Lies About U.S. Aid
to Israel


THE STRATEGIC FUNCTIONS OF U.S. AID TO ISRAEL
By Stephen Zunes

Dr. Zunes is an assistant professor in the Department of
Politics at the University of San Francisco

Since 1992, the U.S. has offered Israel an additional $2 billion annually
in loan guarantees. Congressional researchers have disclosed that
between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were
converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the
beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been
forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's
often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government
loan. U.S. policy since 1984 has been that economic assistance to Israel
must equal or exceed Israel's annual debt repayment to the United
States. Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly
installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at
the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to
borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back
through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.

In addition, there is the more than $1.5 billion in private U.S. funds that
go to Israel annually in the form of $1 billion in private tax-deductible
donations and $500 million in Israeli bonds. The ability of Americans to
make what amounts to tax-deductible contributions to a foreign
government, made possible through a number of Jewish charities, does
not exist with any other country. Nor do these figures include short- and
long-term commercial loans from U.S. banks, which have been as high
as $1 billion annually in recent years.

Total U.S. aid to Israel is approximately one-third of the American
foreign- aid budget, even though Israel comprises just .001 percent of
the world's population and already has one of the world's higher per
capita incomes. Indeed, Israel's GNP is higher than the combined GNP
of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. With a per
capita income of about $14,000, Israel ranks as the sixteenth wealthiest
country in the world; Israelis enjoy a higher per capita income than
oil-rich Saudi Arabia and are only slightly less well-off than most Western
European countries.

AID does not term economic aid to Israel as development assistance, but
instead uses the term "economic support funding." Given Israel's relative
prosperity, U.S. aid to Israel is becoming increasingly controversial. In
1994, Yossi Beilen, deputy foreign minister of Israel and a Knesset
member, told the Women's International Zionist organization, "If our
economic situation is better than in many of your countries, how can we
go on asking for your charity?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Aid to Israel: What U.S. Taxpayer Should Know
by Tom Malthaner

This morning as I was walking down Shuhada Street in Hebron, I saw
graffiti marking the newly painted storefronts and awnings. Although
three months past schedule and 100 percent over budget, the renovation
of Shuhada Street was finally completed this week. The project manager
said the reason for the delay and cost overruns was the sabotage of the
project by the Israeli settlers of the Beit Hadassah settlement complex in
Hebron. They broke the street lights, stoned project workers, shot out
the windows of bulldozers and other heavy equipment with pellet guns,
broke paving stones before they were laid and now have defaced again
the homes and shops of Palestinians with graffiti. The settlers did not
want Shuhada St. opened to Palestinian traffic as was agreed to under
Oslo 2. This renovation project is paid for by USAID funds and it makes
me angry that my tax dollars have paid for improvements that have been
destroyed by the settlers.

Most Americans are not aware how much of their tax revenue our
government sends to Israel. For the fiscal year ending in September 30,
1997, the U.S. has given Israel $6.72 billion: $6.194 billion falls under
Israel's foreign aid allotment and $526 million comes from agencies such
as the Department of Commerce, the U.S. Information Agency and the
Pentagon. The $6.72 billion figure does not include loan guarantees and
annual compound interest totalling $3.122 billion the U.S. pays on
money borrowed to give to Israel. It does not include the cost to U.S.
taxpayers of IRS tax exemptions that donors can claim when they donate
money to Israeli charities. (Donors claim approximately $1 billion in
Federal tax deductions annually. This ultimately costs other U.S. tax
payers $280 million to $390 million.)

When grant, loans, interest and tax deductions are added together for
the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, our special relationship
with Israel cost U.S. taxpayers over $10 billion.

Since 1949 the U.S. has given Israel a total of $83.205 billion. The
interest costs borne by U.S. tax payers on behalf of Israel are $49.937
billion, thus making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949
$133.132 billion. This may mean that U.S. government has given more
federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given
to the average American citizen.

I am angry when I see Israeli settlers from Hebron destroy improvements
made to Shuhada Street with my tax money. Also, it angers me that my
government is giving over $10 billion to a country that is more
prosperous than most of the other countries in the world and uses much
of its money for strengthening its military and the oppression of the
Palestinian people.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"U.S. Aid to Israel: Interpreting the 'Strategic Relationship"'
by Stephen Zunes

[...]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Cost of Israel to U.S. Taxpayers: True Lies About U.S. Aid to
Israel

By Richard H. Curtiss

For many years the American media said that "Israel receives $1.8 billion
in military aid" or that "Israel receives $1.2 billion in economic aid." Both
statements were true, but since they were never combined to give us the
complete total of annual U.S. aid to Israel, they also were lies--true lies.

Recently Americans have begun to read and hear that "Israel receives
$3 billion in annual U.S. foreign aid." That's true. But it's still a lie. The
problem is that in fiscal 1997 alone, Israel received from a variety of
other U.S. federal budgets at least $525.8 million above and beyond its
$3 billion from the foreign aid budget, and yet another $2 billion in
federal loan guarantees. So the complete total of U.S. grants and loan
guarantees to Israel for fiscal 1997 was $5,525,800,000.

One can truthfully blame the mainstream media for never digging out
these figures for themselves, because none ever have. They were
compiled by the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. But the
mainstream media certainly are not alone. Although Congress authorizes
America's foreign aid total, the fact that more than a third of it goes to a
country smaller in both area and population than Hong Kong probably
never has been mentioned on the floor of the Senate or House. Yet it's
been going on for more than a generation.

Probably the only members of Congress who even suspect the full total
of U.S. funds received by Israel each year are the privileged few
committee members who actually mark it up. And almost all members of
the concerned committees are Jewish, have taken huge campaign
donations orchestrated by Israel's Washington, DC lobby, the American
Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), or both. These congressional
committee members are paid to act, not talk. So they do and they don't.

The same applies to the president, the secretary of state, and the foreign
aid administrator. They all submit a budget that includes aid for Israel,
which Congress approves, or increases, but never cuts. But no one in
the executive branch mentions that of the few remaining U.S. aid
recipients worldwide, all of the others are developing nations which
either make their military bases available to the U.S., are key members
of international alliances in which the U.S. participates, or have suffered
some crippling blow of nature to their abilities to feed their people such
as earthquakes, floods or droughts.

Israel, whose troubles arise solely from its unwillingness to give back
land it seized in the 1967 war in return for peace with its neighbors, does
not fit those criteria. In fact, Israel's 1995 per capita gross domestic
product was $15,800. That put it below Britain at $19,500 and Italy at
$18,700 and just above Ireland at $15,400 and Spain at $14,300.

All four of those European countries have contributed a very large share
of immigrants to the U.S., yet none has organized an ethnic group to
lobby for U.S. foreign aid. Instead, all four send funds and volunteers to
do economic development and emergency relief work in other less
fortunate parts of the world.

The lobby that Israel and its supporters have built in the United States to
make all this aid happen, and to ban discussion of it from the national
dialogue, goes far beyond AIPAC, with its $15 million budget, its 150
employees, and its five or six registered lobbyists who manage to visit
every member of Congress individually once or twice a year.

AIPAC, in turn, can draw upon the resources of the Conference of
Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, a roof group set up
solely to coordinate the efforts of some 52 national Jewish organizations
on behalf of Israel.

Among them are Hadassah, the Zionist women's organization, which
organizes a steady stream of American Jewish visitors to Israel; the
American Jewish Congress, which mobilizes support for Israel among
members of the traditionally left-of-center Jewish mainstream; and the
American Jewish Committee, which plays the same role within the
growing middle-of-the-road and right-of-center Jewish community. The
American Jewish Committee also publishes Commentary,one of the
Israel lobby's principal national publications.

Perhaps the most controversial of these groups is B'nai B'rith's
Anti-Defamation League. Its original highly commendable purpose was to
protect the civil rights of American Jews. Over the past generation,
however, the ADL has regressed into a conspiratorial and, with a $45
million budget, extremely well-funded hate group.

In the 1980s, during the tenure of chairman Seymour Reich, who went
on to become chairman of the Conference of Presidents, ADL was found
to have circulated two annual fund-raising letters warning Jewish parents
against allegedly negative influences on their children arising from the
increasing Arab presence on American university campuses.

More recently, FBI raids on ADL's Los Angeles and San Francisco
offices revealed that an ADL operative had purchased files stolen from
the San Francisco police department that a court had ordered destroyed
because they violated the civil rights of the individuals on whom they had
been compiled. ADL, it was shown, had added the illegally prepared and
illegally obtained material to its own secret files, compiled by planting
informants among Arab-American, African-American, anti-Apartheid and
peace and justice groups.

The ADL infiltrators took notes of the names and remarks of speakers
and members of audiences at programs organized by such groups. ADL
agents even recorded the license plates of persons attending such
programs and then suborned corrupt motor vehicles department
employees or renegade police officers to identify the owners.

Although one of the principal offenders fled the United States to escape
prosecution, no significant penalties were assessed. ADL's Northern
California office was ordered to comply with requests by persons upon
whom dossiers had been prepared to see their own files, but no one
went to jail and as yet no one has paid fines.

Not surprisingly, a defecting employee revealed in an article he
published in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs that AIPAC,
too, has such "enemies" files. They are compiled for use by pro-Israel
journalists like Steven Emerson and other so-called "terrorism experts,"
and also by professional, academic or journalistic rivals of the persons
described for use in black-listing, defaming, or denouncing them. What is
never revealed is that AIPAC's "opposition research" department, under
the supervision of Michael Lewis, son of famed Princeton University
Orientalist Bernard Lewis, is the source of this defamatory material.

But this is not AIPAC's most controversial activity. In the 1970s, when
Congress put a cap on the amount its members could earn from
speakers' fees and book royalties over and above their salaries, it halted
AIPAC's most effective ways of paying off members for voting according
to AIPAC recommendations. Members of AIPAC's national board of
directors solved the problem by returning to their home states and
creating political action committees (PACs).

Most special interests have PACs, as do many major corporations, labor
unions, trade associations and public-interest groups. But the pro-Israel
groups went wild. To date some 126 pro-Israel PACs have been
registered, and no fewer than 50 have been active in every national
election over the past generation.

An individual voter can give up to $2,000 to a candidate in an election
cycle, and a PAC can give a candidate up to $10,000. However, a single
special interest with 50 PACs can give a candidate who is facing a tough
opponent, and who has voted according to its recommendations, up to
half a million dollars. That's enough to buy all the television time needed
to get elected in most parts of the country.

Even candidates who don't need this kind of money certainly don't want
it to become available to a rival from their own party in a primary election,
or to an opponent from the opposing party in a general election. As a
result, all but a handful of the 535 members of the Senate and House
vote as AIPAC instructs when it comes to aid to Israel, or other aspects
of U.S. Middle East policy.

There is something else very special about AIPAC's network of political
action committees. Nearly all have deceptive names. Who could possibly
know that the Delaware Valley Good Government Association in
Philadelphia, San Franciscans for Good Government in California,
Cactus PAC in Arizona, Beaver PAC in Wisconsin, and even Icepac in
New York are really pro-Israel PACs under deep cover?

Hiding AIPAC's Tracks

In fact, the congressmembers know it when they list the contributions
they receive on the campaign statements they have to prepare for the
Federal Election Commission. But their constituents don't know this
when they read these statements. So just as no other special interest
can put so much "hard money" into any candidate's election campaign as
can the Israel lobby, no other special interest has gone to such elaborate
lengths to hide its tracks.

Although AIPAC, Washington's most feared special-interest lobby, can
hide how it uses both carrots and sticks to bribe or intimidate members of
Congress, it can't hide all of the results.

Anyone can ask one of their representatives in Congress for a chart
prepared by the Congressional Research Service, a branch of the
Library of Congress, that shows Israel received $62.5 billion in foreign
aid from fiscal year 1949 through fiscal year 1996. People in the national
capital area also can visit the library of the U.S. Agency for International
Development (USAID) in Rosslyn, Virginia, and obtain the same
information, plus charts showing how much foreign aid the U.S. has
given other countries as well.

Visitors will learn that in precisely the same 1949-1996 time frame, the
total of U.S. foreign aid to all of the countries of sub-Saharan Africa,
Latin America and the Caribbean combined was
$62,497,800,000--almost exactly the amount given to tiny Israel.

According to the Population Reference Bureau of Washington, DC, in
mid-1995 the sub-Saharan countries had a combined population of 568
million. The $24,415,700,000 in foreign aid they had received by then
amounted to $42.99 per sub-Saharan African.

Similarly, with a combined population of 486 million, all of the countries
of Latin America and the Caribbean together had received
$38,254,400,000. This amounted to $79 per person.

The per capita U.S. foreign aid to Israel's 5.8 million people during the
same period was $10,775.48. This meant that for every dollar the U.S.
spent on an African, it spent $250.65 on an Israeli, and for every dollar it
spent on someone from the Western Hemisphere outside the United
States, it spent $214 on an Israeli.

Shocking Comparisons

These comparisons already seem shocking, but they are far from the
whole truth. Using reports compiled by Clyde Mark of the Congressional
Research Service and other sources, freelance writer Frank Collins
tallied for theWashington Report all of the extra items for Israel buried in
the budgets of the Pentagon and other federal agencies in fiscal year
1993. Washington Report news editor Shawn Twing did the same thing
for fiscal years 1996 and 1997.

They uncovered $1.271 billion in extras in FY 1993, $355.3 million in FY
1996 and $525.8 million in FY 1997. These represent an average
increase of 12.2 percent over the officially recorded foreign aid totals for
the same fiscal years, and they probably are not complete. It's
reasonable to assume, therefore, that a similar 12.2 percent hidden
increase has prevailed over all of the years Israel has received aid.

As of Oct. 31, 1997 Israel will have received $3.05 billion in U.S. foreign
aid for fiscal year 1997 and $3.08 billion in foreign aid for fiscal year
1998. Adding the 1997 and 1998 totals to those of previous years since
1949 yields a total of $74,157,600,000 in foreign aid grants and loans.
Assuming that the actual totals from other budgets average 12.2 percent
of that amount, that brings the grand total to $83,204,827,200.

But that's not quite all. Receiving its annual foreign aid appropriation
during the first month of the fiscal year, instead of in quarterly
installments as do other recipients, is just another special privilege
Congress has voted for Israel. It enables Israel to invest the money in
U.S. Treasury notes. That means that the U.S., which has to borrow the
money it gives to Israel, pays interest on the money it has granted to
Israel in advance, while at the same time Israel is collecting interest on
the money. That interest to Israel from advance payments adds another
$1.650 billion to the total, making it $84,854,827,200.That's the number
you should write down for total aid to Israel. And that's $14,346 each for
each man, woman and child in Israel.

It's worth noting that that figure does not include U.S. government loan
guarantees to Israel, of which Israel has drawn $9.8 billion to date. They
greatly reduce the interest rate the Israeli government pays on
commercial loans, and they place additional burdens on U.S. taxpayers,
especially if the Israeli government should default on any of them. But
since neither the savings to Israel nor the costs to U.S. taxpayers can be
accurately quantified, they are excluded from consideration here.

Further, friends of Israel never tire of saying that Israel has never
defaulted on repayment of a U.S. government loan. It would be equally
accurate to say Israel has never been required to repay a U.S.
government loan. The truth of the matter is complex, and designed to be
so by those who seek to conceal it from the U.S. taxpayer.

Most U.S. loans to Israel are forgiven, and many were made with the
explicit understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was
required to repay them. By disguising as loans what in fact were grants,
cooperating members of Congress exempted Israel from the U.S.
oversight that would have accompanied grants. On other loans, Israel
was expected to pay the interest and eventually to begin repaying the
principal. But the so-called Cranston Amendment, which has been
attached by Congress to every foreign aid appropriation since 1983,
provides that economic aid to Israel will never dip below the amount
Israel is required to pay on its outstanding loans. In short, whether U.S.
aid is extended as grants or loans to Israel, it never returns to the
Treasury.

Israel enjoys other privileges. While most countries receiving U.S.
military aid funds are expected to use them for U.S. arms, ammunition
and training, Israel can spend part of these funds on weapons made by
Israeli manufacturers. Also, when it spends its U.S. military aid money on
U.S. products, Israel frequently requires the U.S. vendor to buy
components or materials from Israeli manufacturers. Thus, though Israeli
politicians say that their own manufacturers and exporters are making
them progressively less dependent upon U.S. aid, in fact those Israeli
manufacturers and exporters are heavily subsidized by U.S. aid.

Although it's beyond the parameters of this study, it's worth mentioning
that Israel also receives foreign aid from some other countries. After the
United States, the principal donor of both economic and military aid to
Israel is Germany.

By far the largest component of German aid has been in the form of
restitution payments to victims of Nazi attrocities. But there also has
been extensive German military assistance to Israel during and since the
Gulf war, and a variety of German educational and research grants go to
Israeli institutions. The total of German assistance in all of these
categories to the Israeli government, Israeli individuals and Israeli private
institutions has been some $31 billion or $5,345 per capita, bringing the
per capita total of U.S. and German assistance combined to almost
$20,000 per Israeli. Since very little public money is spent on the more
than 20 percent of Israeli citizens who are Muslim or Christian, the actual
per capita benefits received by Israel's Jewish citizens would be
considerably higher.

True Cost to U.S. Taxpayers

Generous as it is, what Israelis actually got in U.S. aid is considerably
less than what it has cost U.S. taxpayers to provide it. The principal
difference is that so long as the U.S. runs an annual budget deficit, every
dollar of aid the U.S. gives Israel has to be raised through U.S.
government borrowing.

In an article in the Washington Report for December 1991/January 1992,
Frank Collins estimated the costs of this interest, based upon prevailing
interest rates for every year since 1949. I have updated this by applying
a very conservative 5 percent interest rate for subsequent years, and
confined the amount upon which the interest is calculated to grants, not
loans or loan guarantees.

On this basis the $84.8 billion in grants, loans and commodities Israel
has received from the U.S. since 1949 cost the U.S. an additional
$49,936,880,000 in interest.

There are many other costs of Israel to U.S. taxpayers, such as most or
all of the $45.6 billion in U.S. foreign aid to Egypt since Egypt made
peace with Israel in 1979 (compared to $4.2 billion in U.S. aid to Egypt
for the preceding 26 years). U.S. foreign aid to Egypt, which is pegged at
two-thirds of U.S. foreign aid to Israel, averages $2.2 billion per year.

There also have been immense political and military costs to the U.S. for
its consistent support of Israel during Israel's half-century of disputes
with the Palestinians and all of its Arab neighbors. In addition, there have
been the approximately $10 billion in U.S. loan guarantees and perhaps
$20 billion in tax-exempt contributions made to Israel by American Jews
in the nearly half-century since Israel was created.

Even excluding all of these extra costs, America's $84.8 billion in aid to
Israel from fiscal years 1949 through 1998, and the interest the U.S. paid
to borrow this money, has cost U.S. taxpayers $134.8 billion, not
adjusted for inflation. Or, put another way, the nearly $14,630 every one
of 5.8 million Israelis received from the U.S. government by Oct. 31,
1997 has cost American taxpayers $23,240 per Israeli.

It would be interesting to know how many of those American taxpayers
believe they and their families have received as much from the U.S.
Treasury as has everyone who has chosen to become a citizen of Israel.
But it's a question that will never occur to the American public because,
so long as America's mainstream media, Congress and president
maintain their pact of silence, few Americans will ever know the true cost
of Israel to U.S. taxpayers.
------------------

Richard Curtiss, a retired U.S. foreign service officer, is the
executive editor of the Washington Report on Middle East
Affairs."

--
Visit the Cybermuseum of BBC War Crimes at:
http://users.bluecarrots.com/rbisto/BBC/BBC.html
Admission *FREE* - even for libruls!
Perfesser White
2004-06-07 01:39:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Honest Aryan
"...It would be interesting to know how many of those American taxpayers
believe they and their families have received as much from the U.S.
Treasury as has everyone who has chosen to become a citizen of Israel.
But it's a question that will never occur to the American public because,
so long as America's mainstream media, Congress and president
maintain their pact of silence, few Americans will ever know the true cost
of Israel to U.S. taxpayers."
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm
Here's the official US Gubmint version, from the Library of Congress:

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/24053.pdf

Regards,
Perfesser White
Post by Honest Aryan
Figures, Facts, and Impact
Summary
Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997) Aid to Israel
Foreign Aid Grants and Loans Grand Total
$74,157,600,000 $84,854,827,200
Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid) Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$9,047,227,200 $49,936,680,000
Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$1,650,000,000 $134,791,507,200
Grand Total Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$84,854,827,200 $23,240
Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
$91 Billion - and Counting
•Congressional Research Report on Israel: US Foreign
Assistance by Clyde Mark (213K pdf file)
•U.S. Aid To Israel: The Strategic Functions
•U.S. Aid to Israel: What U.S. Taxpayer Should Know
•U.S. Aid to Israel: Interpreting the 'Strategic Relationship'
•The Cost of Israel to U.S. Taxpayers: True Lies About U.S. Aid
to Israel
THE STRATEGIC FUNCTIONS OF U.S. AID TO ISRAEL
By Stephen Zunes
Dr. Zunes is an assistant professor in the Department of
Politics at the University of San Francisco
Since 1992, the U.S. has offered Israel an additional $2 billion annually
in loan guarantees. Congressional researchers have disclosed that
between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were
converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the
beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been
forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's
often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government
loan. U.S. policy since 1984 has been that economic assistance to Israel
must equal or exceed Israel's annual debt repayment to the United
States. Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly
installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at
the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to
borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back
through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.
In addition, there is the more than $1.5 billion in private U.S. funds that
go to Israel annually in the form of $1 billion in private tax-deductible
donations and $500 million in Israeli bonds. The ability of Americans to
make what amounts to tax-deductible contributions to a foreign
government, made possible through a number of Jewish charities, does
not exist with any other country. Nor do these figures include short- and
long-term commercial loans from U.S. banks, which have been as high
as $1 billion annually in recent years.
Total U.S. aid to Israel is approximately one-third of the American
foreign- aid budget, even though Israel comprises just .001 percent of
the world's population and already has one of the world's higher per
capita incomes. Indeed, Israel's GNP is higher than the combined GNP
of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. With a per
capita income of about $14,000, Israel ranks as the sixteenth wealthiest
country in the world; Israelis enjoy a higher per capita income than
oil-rich Saudi Arabia and are only slightly less well-off than most Western
European countries.
AID does not term economic aid to Israel as development assistance, but
instead uses the term "economic support funding." Given Israel's relative
prosperity, U.S. aid to Israel is becoming increasingly controversial. In
1994, Yossi Beilen, deputy foreign minister of Israel and a Knesset
member, told the Women's International Zionist organization, "If our
economic situation is better than in many of your countries, how can we
go on asking for your charity?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. Aid to Israel: What U.S. Taxpayer Should Know
by Tom Malthaner
This morning as I was walking down Shuhada Street in Hebron, I saw
graffiti marking the newly painted storefronts and awnings. Although
three months past schedule and 100 percent over budget, the renovation
of Shuhada Street was finally completed this week. The project manager
said the reason for the delay and cost overruns was the sabotage of the
project by the Israeli settlers of the Beit Hadassah settlement complex in
Hebron. They broke the street lights, stoned project workers, shot out
the windows of bulldozers and other heavy equipment with pellet guns,
broke paving stones before they were laid and now have defaced again
the homes and shops of Palestinians with graffiti. The settlers did not
want Shuhada St. opened to Palestinian traffic as was agreed to under
Oslo 2. This renovation project is paid for by USAID funds and it makes
me angry that my tax dollars have paid for improvements that have been
destroyed by the settlers.
Most Americans are not aware how much of their tax revenue our
government sends to Israel. For the fiscal year ending in September 30,
1997, the U.S. has given Israel $6.72 billion: $6.194 billion falls under
Israel's foreign aid allotment and $526 million comes from agencies such
as the Department of Commerce, the U.S. Information Agency and the
Pentagon. The $6.72 billion figure does not include loan guarantees and
annual compound interest totalling $3.122 billion the U.S. pays on
money borrowed to give to Israel. It does not include the cost to U.S.
taxpayers of IRS tax exemptions that donors can claim when they donate
money to Israeli charities. (Donors claim approximately $1 billion in
Federal tax deductions annually. This ultimately costs other U.S. tax
payers $280 million to $390 million.)
When grant, loans, interest and tax deductions are added together for
the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, our special relationship
with Israel cost U.S. taxpayers over $10 billion.
Since 1949 the U.S. has given Israel a total of $83.205 billion. The
interest costs borne by U.S. tax payers on behalf of Israel are $49.937
billion, thus making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949
$133.132 billion. This may mean that U.S. government has given more
federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given
to the average American citizen.
I am angry when I see Israeli settlers from Hebron destroy improvements
made to Shuhada Street with my tax money. Also, it angers me that my
government is giving over $10 billion to a country that is more
prosperous than most of the other countries in the world and uses much
of its money for strengthening its military and the oppression of the
Palestinian people.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"U.S. Aid to Israel: Interpreting the 'Strategic Relationship"'
by Stephen Zunes
[...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Cost of Israel to U.S. Taxpayers: True Lies About U.S. Aid to
Israel
By Richard H. Curtiss
For many years the American media said that "Israel receives $1.8 billion
in military aid" or that "Israel receives $1.2 billion in economic aid." Both
statements were true, but since they were never combined to give us the
complete total of annual U.S. aid to Israel, they also were lies--true lies.
Recently Americans have begun to read and hear that "Israel receives
$3 billion in annual U.S. foreign aid." That's true. But it's still a lie. The
problem is that in fiscal 1997 alone, Israel received from a variety of
other U.S. federal budgets at least $525.8 million above and beyond its
$3 billion from the foreign aid budget, and yet another $2 billion in
federal loan guarantees. So the complete total of U.S. grants and loan
guarantees to Israel for fiscal 1997 was $5,525,800,000.
One can truthfully blame the mainstream media for never digging out
these figures for themselves, because none ever have. They were
compiled by the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. But the
mainstream media certainly are not alone. Although Congress authorizes
America's foreign aid total, the fact that more than a third of it goes to a
country smaller in both area and population than Hong Kong probably
never has been mentioned on the floor of the Senate or House. Yet it's
been going on for more than a generation.
Probably the only members of Congress who even suspect the full total
of U.S. funds received by Israel each year are the privileged few
committee members who actually mark it up. And almost all members of
the concerned committees are Jewish, have taken huge campaign
donations orchestrated by Israel's Washington, DC lobby, the American
Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), or both. These congressional
committee members are paid to act, not talk. So they do and they don't.
The same applies to the president, the secretary of state, and the foreign
aid administrator. They all submit a budget that includes aid for Israel,
which Congress approves, or increases, but never cuts. But no one in
the executive branch mentions that of the few remaining U.S. aid
recipients worldwide, all of the others are developing nations which
either make their military bases available to the U.S., are key members
of international alliances in which the U.S. participates, or have suffered
some crippling blow of nature to their abilities to feed their people such
as earthquakes, floods or droughts.
Israel, whose troubles arise solely from its unwillingness to give back
land it seized in the 1967 war in return for peace with its neighbors, does
not fit those criteria. In fact, Israel's 1995 per capita gross domestic
product was $15,800. That put it below Britain at $19,500 and Italy at
$18,700 and just above Ireland at $15,400 and Spain at $14,300.
All four of those European countries have contributed a very large share
of immigrants to the U.S., yet none has organized an ethnic group to
lobby for U.S. foreign aid. Instead, all four send funds and volunteers to
do economic development and emergency relief work in other less
fortunate parts of the world.
The lobby that Israel and its supporters have built in the United States to
make all this aid happen, and to ban discussion of it from the national
dialogue, goes far beyond AIPAC, with its $15 million budget, its 150
employees, and its five or six registered lobbyists who manage to visit
every member of Congress individually once or twice a year.
AIPAC, in turn, can draw upon the resources of the Conference of
Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, a roof group set up
solely to coordinate the efforts of some 52 national Jewish organizations
on behalf of Israel.
Among them are Hadassah, the Zionist women's organization, which
organizes a steady stream of American Jewish visitors to Israel; the
American Jewish Congress, which mobilizes support for Israel among
members of the traditionally left-of-center Jewish mainstream; and the
American Jewish Committee, which plays the same role within the
growing middle-of-the-road and right-of-center Jewish community. The
American Jewish Committee also publishes Commentary,one of the
Israel lobby's principal national publications.
Perhaps the most controversial of these groups is B'nai B'rith's
Anti-Defamation League. Its original highly commendable purpose was to
protect the civil rights of American Jews. Over the past generation,
however, the ADL has regressed into a conspiratorial and, with a $45
million budget, extremely well-funded hate group.
In the 1980s, during the tenure of chairman Seymour Reich, who went
on to become chairman of the Conference of Presidents, ADL was found
to have circulated two annual fund-raising letters warning Jewish parents
against allegedly negative influences on their children arising from the
increasing Arab presence on American university campuses.
More recently, FBI raids on ADL's Los Angeles and San Francisco
offices revealed that an ADL operative had purchased files stolen from
the San Francisco police department that a court had ordered destroyed
because they violated the civil rights of the individuals on whom they had
been compiled. ADL, it was shown, had added the illegally prepared and
illegally obtained material to its own secret files, compiled by planting
informants among Arab-American, African-American, anti-Apartheid and
peace and justice groups.
The ADL infiltrators took notes of the names and remarks of speakers
and members of audiences at programs organized by such groups. ADL
agents even recorded the license plates of persons attending such
programs and then suborned corrupt motor vehicles department
employees or renegade police officers to identify the owners.
Although one of the principal offenders fled the United States to escape
prosecution, no significant penalties were assessed. ADL's Northern
California office was ordered to comply with requests by persons upon
whom dossiers had been prepared to see their own files, but no one
went to jail and as yet no one has paid fines.
Not surprisingly, a defecting employee revealed in an article he
published in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs that AIPAC,
too, has such "enemies" files. They are compiled for use by pro-Israel
journalists like Steven Emerson and other so-called "terrorism experts,"
and also by professional, academic or journalistic rivals of the persons
described for use in black-listing, defaming, or denouncing them. What is
never revealed is that AIPAC's "opposition research" department, under
the supervision of Michael Lewis, son of famed Princeton University
Orientalist Bernard Lewis, is the source of this defamatory material.
But this is not AIPAC's most controversial activity. In the 1970s, when
Congress put a cap on the amount its members could earn from
speakers' fees and book royalties over and above their salaries, it halted
AIPAC's most effective ways of paying off members for voting according
to AIPAC recommendations. Members of AIPAC's national board of
directors solved the problem by returning to their home states and
creating political action committees (PACs).
Most special interests have PACs, as do many major corporations, labor
unions, trade associations and public-interest groups. But the pro-Israel
groups went wild. To date some 126 pro-Israel PACs have been
registered, and no fewer than 50 have been active in every national
election over the past generation.
An individual voter can give up to $2,000 to a candidate in an election
cycle, and a PAC can give a candidate up to $10,000. However, a single
special interest with 50 PACs can give a candidate who is facing a tough
opponent, and who has voted according to its recommendations, up to
half a million dollars. That's enough to buy all the television time needed
to get elected in most parts of the country.
Even candidates who don't need this kind of money certainly don't want
it to become available to a rival from their own party in a primary election,
or to an opponent from the opposing party in a general election. As a
result, all but a handful of the 535 members of the Senate and House
vote as AIPAC instructs when it comes to aid to Israel, or other aspects
of U.S. Middle East policy.
There is something else very special about AIPAC's network of political
action committees. Nearly all have deceptive names. Who could possibly
know that the Delaware Valley Good Government Association in
Philadelphia, San Franciscans for Good Government in California,
Cactus PAC in Arizona, Beaver PAC in Wisconsin, and even Icepac in
New York are really pro-Israel PACs under deep cover?
Hiding AIPAC's Tracks
In fact, the congressmembers know it when they list the contributions
they receive on the campaign statements they have to prepare for the
Federal Election Commission. But their constituents don't know this
when they read these statements. So just as no other special interest
can put so much "hard money" into any candidate's election campaign as
can the Israel lobby, no other special interest has gone to such elaborate
lengths to hide its tracks.
Although AIPAC, Washington's most feared special-interest lobby, can
hide how it uses both carrots and sticks to bribe or intimidate members of
Congress, it can't hide all of the results.
Anyone can ask one of their representatives in Congress for a chart
prepared by the Congressional Research Service, a branch of the
Library of Congress, that shows Israel received $62.5 billion in foreign
aid from fiscal year 1949 through fiscal year 1996. People in the national
capital area also can visit the library of the U.S. Agency for International
Development (USAID) in Rosslyn, Virginia, and obtain the same
information, plus charts showing how much foreign aid the U.S. has
given other countries as well.
Visitors will learn that in precisely the same 1949-1996 time frame, the
total of U.S. foreign aid to all of the countries of sub-Saharan Africa,
Latin America and the Caribbean combined was
$62,497,800,000--almost exactly the amount given to tiny Israel.
According to the Population Reference Bureau of Washington, DC, in
mid-1995 the sub-Saharan countries had a combined population of 568
million. The $24,415,700,000 in foreign aid they had received by then
amounted to $42.99 per sub-Saharan African.
Similarly, with a combined population of 486 million, all of the countries
of Latin America and the Caribbean together had received
$38,254,400,000. This amounted to $79 per person.
The per capita U.S. foreign aid to Israel's 5.8 million people during the
same period was $10,775.48. This meant that for every dollar the U.S.
spent on an African, it spent $250.65 on an Israeli, and for every dollar it
spent on someone from the Western Hemisphere outside the United
States, it spent $214 on an Israeli.
Shocking Comparisons
These comparisons already seem shocking, but they are far from the
whole truth. Using reports compiled by Clyde Mark of the Congressional
Research Service and other sources, freelance writer Frank Collins
tallied for theWashington Report all of the extra items for Israel buried in
the budgets of the Pentagon and other federal agencies in fiscal year
1993. Washington Report news editor Shawn Twing did the same thing
for fiscal years 1996 and 1997.
They uncovered $1.271 billion in extras in FY 1993, $355.3 million in FY
1996 and $525.8 million in FY 1997. These represent an average
increase of 12.2 percent over the officially recorded foreign aid totals for
the same fiscal years, and they probably are not complete. It's
reasonable to assume, therefore, that a similar 12.2 percent hidden
increase has prevailed over all of the years Israel has received aid.
As of Oct. 31, 1997 Israel will have received $3.05 billion in U.S. foreign
aid for fiscal year 1997 and $3.08 billion in foreign aid for fiscal year
1998. Adding the 1997 and 1998 totals to those of previous years since
1949 yields a total of $74,157,600,000 in foreign aid grants and loans.
Assuming that the actual totals from other budgets average 12.2 percent
of that amount, that brings the grand total to $83,204,827,200.
But that's not quite all. Receiving its annual foreign aid appropriation
during the first month of the fiscal year, instead of in quarterly
installments as do other recipients, is just another special privilege
Congress has voted for Israel. It enables Israel to invest the money in
U.S. Treasury notes. That means that the U.S., which has to borrow the
money it gives to Israel, pays interest on the money it has granted to
Israel in advance, while at the same time Israel is collecting interest on
the money. That interest to Israel from advance payments adds another
$1.650 billion to the total, making it $84,854,827,200.That's the number
you should write down for total aid to Israel. And that's $14,346 each for
each man, woman and child in Israel.
It's worth noting that that figure does not include U.S. government loan
guarantees to Israel, of which Israel has drawn $9.8 billion to date. They
greatly reduce the interest rate the Israeli government pays on
commercial loans, and they place additional burdens on U.S. taxpayers,
especially if the Israeli government should default on any of them. But
since neither the savings to Israel nor the costs to U.S. taxpayers can be
accurately quantified, they are excluded from consideration here.
Further, friends of Israel never tire of saying that Israel has never
defaulted on repayment of a U.S. government loan. It would be equally
accurate to say Israel has never been required to repay a U.S.
government loan. The truth of the matter is complex, and designed to be
so by those who seek to conceal it from the U.S. taxpayer.
Most U.S. loans to Israel are forgiven, and many were made with the
explicit understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was
required to repay them. By disguising as loans what in fact were grants,
cooperating members of Congress exempted Israel from the U.S.
oversight that would have accompanied grants. On other loans, Israel
was expected to pay the interest and eventually to begin repaying the
principal. But the so-called Cranston Amendment, which has been
attached by Congress to every foreign aid appropriation since 1983,
provides that economic aid to Israel will never dip below the amount
Israel is required to pay on its outstanding loans. In short, whether U.S.
aid is extended as grants or loans to Israel, it never returns to the
Treasury.
Israel enjoys other privileges. While most countries receiving U.S.
military aid funds are expected to use them for U.S. arms, ammunition
and training, Israel can spend part of these funds on weapons made by
Israeli manufacturers. Also, when it spends its U.S. military aid money on
U.S. products, Israel frequently requires the U.S. vendor to buy
components or materials from Israeli manufacturers. Thus, though Israeli
politicians say that their own manufacturers and exporters are making
them progressively less dependent upon U.S. aid, in fact those Israeli
manufacturers and exporters are heavily subsidized by U.S. aid.
Although it's beyond the parameters of this study, it's worth mentioning
that Israel also receives foreign aid from some other countries. After the
United States, the principal donor of both economic and military aid to
Israel is Germany.
By far the largest component of German aid has been in the form of
restitution payments to victims of Nazi attrocities. But there also has
been extensive German military assistance to Israel during and since the
Gulf war, and a variety of German educational and research grants go to
Israeli institutions. The total of German assistance in all of these
categories to the Israeli government, Israeli individuals and Israeli private
institutions has been some $31 billion or $5,345 per capita, bringing the
per capita total of U.S. and German assistance combined to almost
$20,000 per Israeli. Since very little public money is spent on the more
than 20 percent of Israeli citizens who are Muslim or Christian, the actual
per capita benefits received by Israel's Jewish citizens would be
considerably higher.
True Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
Generous as it is, what Israelis actually got in U.S. aid is considerably
less than what it has cost U.S. taxpayers to provide it. The principal
difference is that so long as the U.S. runs an annual budget deficit, every
dollar of aid the U.S. gives Israel has to be raised through U.S.
government borrowing.
In an article in the Washington Report for December 1991/January 1992,
Frank Collins estimated the costs of this interest, based upon prevailing
interest rates for every year since 1949. I have updated this by applying
a very conservative 5 percent interest rate for subsequent years, and
confined the amount upon which the interest is calculated to grants, not
loans or loan guarantees.
On this basis the $84.8 billion in grants, loans and commodities Israel
has received from the U.S. since 1949 cost the U.S. an additional
$49,936,880,000 in interest.
There are many other costs of Israel to U.S. taxpayers, such as most or
all of the $45.6 billion in U.S. foreign aid to Egypt since Egypt made
peace with Israel in 1979 (compared to $4.2 billion in U.S. aid to Egypt
for the preceding 26 years). U.S. foreign aid to Egypt, which is pegged at
two-thirds of U.S. foreign aid to Israel, averages $2.2 billion per year.
There also have been immense political and military costs to the U.S. for
its consistent support of Israel during Israel's half-century of disputes
with the Palestinians and all of its Arab neighbors. In addition, there have
been the approximately $10 billion in U.S. loan guarantees and perhaps
$20 billion in tax-exempt contributions made to Israel by American Jews
in the nearly half-century since Israel was created.
Even excluding all of these extra costs, America's $84.8 billion in aid to
Israel from fiscal years 1949 through 1998, and the interest the U.S. paid
to borrow this money, has cost U.S. taxpayers $134.8 billion, not
adjusted for inflation. Or, put another way, the nearly $14,630 every one
of 5.8 million Israelis received from the U.S. government by Oct. 31,
1997 has cost American taxpayers $23,240 per Israeli.
It would be interesting to know how many of those American taxpayers
believe they and their families have received as much from the U.S.
Treasury as has everyone who has chosen to become a citizen of Israel.
But it's a question that will never occur to the American public because,
so long as America's mainstream media, Congress and president
maintain their pact of silence, few Americans will ever know the true cost
of Israel to U.S. taxpayers.
------------------
Richard Curtiss, a retired U.S. foreign service officer, is the
executive editor of the Washington Report on Middle East
Affairs."
--
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